The Gains Formula by Makka

Comments

30 comments posted
 

good shit;P Keep up the good work! And i'll keep bugging you:P

Posted by Jobo on Tue, 01/13/2009 - 16:55
 

Impressive work, thanks for the effort! Was hard to dig through it, but got there in the end.

Posted by Catwalk on Tue, 01/13/2009 - 17:31
 

gg Makka! Its really appreciated :D

Posted by Fenith on Tue, 01/13/2009 - 17:50
 

nice work done Makka! Very impressive!!! *bows*

rosedragon's picture
Posted by rosedragon on Tue, 01/13/2009 - 18:28
 

Kudos for your work man, keep it up!

Posted by Micke- on Tue, 01/13/2009 - 18:29
 

Nice work mate.. Still didn't figure out that raw relative gains but maybe will in future :D

Posted by MorbidAngel on Tue, 01/13/2009 - 20:36
 

for the love of all that is holy...

Ruairi's picture
Posted by Ruairi on Tue, 01/13/2009 - 20:41
 

amazing work.. it wen't through the details..
waiting for the attack time formula (if OMAC still keep the same mechanics)
coz changes in gen is really sucks.. people will always use their size to pawn others :D
if this happen, then this will be an exploring game or dicing game, not a warring game anymore

OMAC supposed to change the attack time based on the size difference between both agressor and the victim.

Posted by humb on Wed, 01/14/2009 - 03:17
 

humb cant be easy whoring can it? :)

its already in place on both wol and gen (lol-seeing as it was only supposed to be implemented on gen) in war-times.

Posted by Micke- on Wed, 01/14/2009 - 04:31
 

Great work Makka much <3

Also,

</3 Darksel

Filthy Dane

Posted by F0l2c3 on Wed, 01/14/2009 - 05:48
 

yeah.. my bad.. its already in place..
i mean don't change anything about the time (even in war).. balance already. we have to think the proper strate whether we need to run a bank or not.

if they put the changes in WoL, all i see is: we need just 4-5 provs (even less) to win a war while the others go for T/Ms or turtles. just my 2 cents

Posted by humb on Wed, 01/14/2009 - 06:52
 

Very good work, this will help my current research too so double plus in my books.
Glad to see this kind of thing released publicly.

Posted by Clampy on Wed, 01/14/2009 - 10:56
 

/me waits for Realest to show up

Posted by LucidEssence on Wed, 01/14/2009 - 13:16
 

Is 4. based on only 10 data points? That sounds way low.

Posted by Catwalk on Wed, 01/14/2009 - 15:49
 

-0.5x^2 + x - 0.38

tried this on 8 attacks I've logged from gen this age. all hits were on targets in larger kd's, not previously hit, and no gs

Attack Real Gain Predicted Gain Relative NW
1 137 133 89.39%
2 72 73 87.25%
3 67 77 81.20%
4 100 116 81.05%
5 82 96 80.83%
6 64 76 80.36%
7 57 67 80.27%
8 50 69 73.75%

Not sure how you got it to work with your graph

Posted by LucidEssence on Wed, 01/14/2009 - 23:24
 

lol Lucid, its amazing that still nobody has figured out the formula yet, despite all the efforts of the "community". I didnt read this article in depth, but knowing Makka for who he is, he probably is on the right track, but not quite there.

For the record, Ive already figured out gains formula and how relative kd nw affects gains with Inso and Arael in about 2 days (had to wait for army in's to get data points) about 4-5 ages ago in age 37, and the formula is still valid today.

All these researchers just do not have the slightest clue how to set up a simple and effective experiment to figure out what they want.

edit: plunder gains work exactly the same way as land gains, once u figure out this formula.

Posted by Realest on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 03:25
 

Lucid, try incorporating modifiers, other than that I have no explanation other than the data you used changed between when you gained it and when you attacked (unlikely in gen), you didn't record it accurately in the first place (more than likely), or you used out of date values. I don't know if the attack gains are calculated from the data you would see on the kd page, or the actual data you would see if you updated the kd page, but that could be an explanation, you didn't update the entire kingdom and therefore are getting different values than what the game is using.

The other option is that you are applying my formula in a range where I offered no formula.... I specifically state in the article results I have no recommendation for top feed hits in terms of kd networth effect. It might decrease gains when topfeeding, it might increase them, it might do nothing, I don't know and I can't really be bothered figuring it out, theres enough people interested in this project now to do it for themselves. Hopefully they're not as useless as Realest and will actually share the formula publicly when they get it all squared away 100%.

Good luck.

Makka's picture
Posted by Makka on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 06:41
 

your interval where the formula was "valid" was 0.6 to 1.4. All these hits were between 0.7 and 0.9. what is "more likely" is that you were the one recording hits wrong. top feeding kd wise does not add or detract anything from your gains, which is extremely easy to prove. your formula is wrong. ask realest if you won't take my word for it

Posted by LucidEssence on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 08:57
 

<3 azns

Ruairi's picture
Posted by Ruairi on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 11:00
 

great work cant wait to see it in a tool one day!

Posted by DonJuan on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 11:17
 

A few results from a recent feeding wave. No GS on any targets and no GB protection. No relations, Aggressive stance. Not all values were updated prior to hitting, may be minor inaccuracies.

Own KD NW 11,923,729
Enemy KD NW 8,883,845
KD NW ratio 74.5%
Gains modifier according to above formula 0.92

Attacker NW | Target NW | Target acres | Gains | Military sci bonus | Gains according to formula

259451 | 243339 | 1544 | 189 | 5.5% | 193
322988 | 289458 | 1722 | 236 | 18.6% | 236
397505 | 428101 | 2503 | 330 |12.2% | 332

Posted by Catwalk on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 17:26
 

Nice Makka you are getting closer. I hope to see your there soon :D

celien's picture
Posted by celien on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 20:43
 

Just had a predicted gain of 64 yield 24 acres. 60% target size, 82% target KD, no protection, no GS, Normal stance, no relations, 1483 acres. Does the above formula apply to bottomfeeding outside war?

Posted by Catwalk on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 21:38
 

le formula is wrong cw

Posted by goodz on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 23:04
 

this section of news paper is fail 0/2 on correctness

Posted by goodz on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 23:05
 

It should account for bottom feeds yes, I never had a discrepancy larger than 9 acres in my research, OOW is still inaccurate apparently because my province effect formula is incorrect. Seems to be fairly accurate given any data I've collected so far, but I can't see it giving such a sizable error like that. I expect GB protection was in place and you may have missed it, I'll have a look later tonight.

Makka's picture
Posted by Makka on Fri, 01/16/2009 - 10:04
 

If its wrong, so be it, I knew aspects of it were not completely correct and I said as much. I released this to help people, hardly any other person doing this kind of research was on the right track, my formulas at least give a guide of the way the system works, and from any worthwhile accurate data I have collected and been given it also proves quite accurate. Rather than people coming up with completely ridiculous solutions and approaches to the problem, I have given a template, from here on out the only work necessary is refinement.

Unless you're going to comment with some evidence, accurate proof and data that can be used to refine it, then don't bother flaming, I'm sick of getting comments and pm's from the lazy delinquent morons that can't be bothered doing a single second of work on the problem themselves, but are quite happy to tell me how stupid or inaccurate my own work is.

Makka's picture
Posted by Makka on Fri, 01/16/2009 - 10:06
 

keep plugging away makka :)

you will get there.

Posted by Crimson on Sun, 01/18/2009 - 20:01
 

Thanks for your work, don't be upset Makka- WAY WAY more people like what you do than don't.

Posted by saveid on Fri, 04/24/2009 - 17:51
 

The formula seems to be fairly accurate. Used in the last war for 7 attacks, all were within 1 acre range. So that's quite good enough for me.

Would you happen to know how raze and intra-kingdom works too? (Maybe I'm asking for too much :P)

Posted by yume on Wed, 06/10/2009 - 20:08

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